So, I decided to try a little something new on the ol’ blog. I seem to have been talking a lot about relationships lately, and I thought it would be interesting to get a male perspective on the world of dating. However, I didn’t expect to get quite the response that I got.

When I asked Josh to write a guest post for my blog because I wanted a male perspective, he was excited. We were discussing the possibilities and decided on the idea of a guy trying to date a girl and ending up in the “friend zone.” How do you get there? Why do you get there? What do you have to do to avoid getting “friended?”

His post came back a little aggressive for my taste, so I’ve taken his post word for word, and turned this into a little point/counterpoint. Hope you enjoy!

First let me thank Lauren for the opportunity and challenge to contribute to her blog. Hopefully I can become a semi occasionally guest contributor to balance her blog with a male perspective.

The question: How long to guys have to make their move until a woman sees them as just a friend?  The underlying reason for this question is why guys seem so hesitant to make a move on a girl they like, which is an interesting question. I have some experience with this situation both positive and negative. I have found myself in situations where I played it cool too long or was to aggressive and for various reasons was unsuccessful with my pursuits. However the reasoning behind a guy’s actions is slightly complicated and depends on the situation he finds him-self in and the circumstances that led him to the courtship of a woman.

First let me preface this answer by establishing a few facts:

Keep in mind that these “facts” that Josh speaks of are his opinion. They are in no way deemed factual representations of what all men think or feel or what is right. Carry on.

1. Guys are “female” stupid no matter how educated they are. So, no matter how cute and coy you think you are being and how awesome your subtle signs are, chances are if you have a guy that’s reluctant to make a move, he probably doesn’t know you like him. Again, guys are simple. They don’t pick up on signs and hints very well. They relish the obvious. They like a chase but they need something to chase.

Now, I am not a “game-player.” I don’t like to play hard-to-get and I don’t like to be toyed with. However, I have to agree with Josh on this one. Even if a guy or a girl says they don’t like games, that doesn’t mean that you throw yourself at them. You have to leave a little mystery. Mystery is what intrigues a man or a woman and keeps them interested in you. Don’t toy with someone’s emotions, but just don’t reveal all of yours all at once. However, I feel that games and relationships are somewhat linked. What are games? They entail goals, rules, challenges and interactions. It’s how you play the “game” that will get you the right end result.

2. Guys don’t want girls that are just friends. Guys have a saying that a friend that’s a girl is just someone you haven’t slept with yet. Yes it’s very pigheaded and very ignorant but in a way it’s very true. Guys never enter into a relationship with a girl because they want to be “friends”, it’s just something that results in a failed attempt at something else. Case in point: Two of my best friends are female. I love them both dearly. One was a girl I had long courtship with butwe became just friends and the other never got passed date one but now we are good friends. The point is that I didn’t want to be just friends with either of these women. I wanted to sleep with these girls and form a romantic relationship. In both cases I accepted friendship as a consolation prize in hopes of maybe becoming more (never happens) and eventually just got used to being friends. Don’t get me wrong, I love both dearly and cherish our friendship but my ego is still bruised.

This is kind of a tough one. It’s walking a thin line between really pissing me off and a somewhat valid argument. I do think that women are just as sexually charged as men. But, some of my very best friends are guys. And perhaps, the trick is that women are able to view guys as just friends right off the bat and men are unable to do so. I’d love to hear some other male thoughts on this. And friendship as a consolation prize? That little comment doesn’t even warrant my response.

3. Women control sex, but guys have to be the aggressors. Women know with the first 10 minutes of meeting a guy if the potential for sex exists. Women like to act like they have more class then men but they see men the same way men see women. They know just by looking at the guy, seeing his stature and his presence how sexually virile they are. They want the man to come over and talk to them. They want to be wooed and charmed. Sure, a guy’s interest might be more animalistic but the intent remains the same. Now it is true that a guy can shoot himself in the foot while a woman can’t. Each guy has a different tolerance level for what crosses the line to make a woman unattractive but it’s a hard line to cross. Versus a woman’s line is very easily crossed. One unsmooth move, one bad joke, one inappropriate comment and the guy has struck out. That’s why women control sex. If women thought like men the population would boom while Trojan and Durex would go out of business. It’s a good thing women control sex.

Even though women control sex they remain utterly confused about guys, which is dumbfounding because we are not that hard to understand. Understanding women is an entirely different animal. Even the brightest minds in the world remain completely dumbfounded about women. How any man scores remains a complete mystery. Either it’s by sheer luck of being in the right place at the right time, or the girl has made it easy to be solved. The problem lies in the fact that women say they want one thing but completely fall for the opposite. So it’s a crapshoot and it’s usually the guys that can bullshit the most that have the most success on a very minor scale.

Sex is complicated. Any way you look at sex, it’s complicated. It complicates potential relationships if it occurs “too soon.” It snuffs out potential relationships if it doesn’t occur “soon enough.” One person could expect more than sex while the other just wants to get laid. I agree that it’s a “crapshoot” but that’s what makes communication crucial. So, maybe the problem is that guys spend their time bullshitting as Josh eludes to, instead of actually communicating therefore they don’t have “success.” Hm.

There is no understanding “women” because we are all individuals. Just like some men are hard to understand as well. We are all individual people. No woman wants the same thing. It’s important to spend more time talking to the person of interest getting to know what they want and stop analyzing women as a whole.

This concept of sexual aggression is very dependent on the situation. The situation in which you met the guy and the situations you find yourself in while initially dating the guy. There’s two ways that a guy pursues a women. Either she’s a girl for the night or a girl for the next day. Different girls have different playbooks. Thus aggression levels are going differ depending how the guy sees you.

Playbooks? Games? BAH! Why don’t you materialize girls a little more. Yeah. That’ll get you laid. Not to mention, when you dump women into two categories, you’re limiting yourself and ruling other possibilities out.

A girl for the night is usually a one night stand, booty call, friends with benefits or a fling type of a relationship. Since we were little boys our mothers have been telling us that wives don’t give it up on the first night. It’s not an instant gratification pursuit. It’s a long term investment. Thus a guy decides early on in his pursuit if it’s a quest for the Holy Grail or the quest for the hot jeans. In this first situation aggression is pretty clear. Just like a lion hunting his prey you have to act quick and hard in order to obtain your feast.

Nice. Now women are being equated to prey. This is why dating is so God-damned hard.

Aggression shows confidence and sexual virility and that’s the very essence of man. That’s his ego coming out and showboating. Often times this aggression and forwardness is aided with the help of alcohol or drugs and by the same sense the woman’s guards and standards are lowered by the aid of alcohol and drugs. If you’re a girl that met their mate in this type of situation, chances are the long term viability of the relationship is not good. There’s a chance that it could turn into more, but that’s more because the guy can get comfortable and lazy with you and is that what you REALLY want?

The second situation is the more traditionally preferred way of meeting a man. This is also the most emotionally dangerous for women and the biggest gamble for men. When it’s just about sex, guys are typically more aggressive. When they have to start rationalizing their feelings and have deeper emotional ties with a female, then the gamble becomes bigger because their ego is more at risk. This is why guys seem more hesitant to make a move and their “female” stupidity takes larger effect.

In the first situation a guy basically just brazenly throws his dick on the table to play all his cards, because if his offer is rejected he can just move onto option #2. This situation is a little more risky because your emotions for the girl are going to affect his ego more. He’s not just going to take a risky gamble and get rejected. He needs a clear sign that his advance is going to be openly received. This is where guys fail to see subtle signs and hidden vibes from women. A guy in this situation is going to be reluctant unless he finds himself in a golden opportunity to minimize the collateral damage associate with his ego taking a shot to the chops. A golden opportunity would be a situation where you and him are either alone at home or in a public place without a lot of group interaction. The chances of a guy making a move where he is highly likely to be embarrassed being rejected is very slim. So if you’re waiting for a guy to make a move you need to present him with these golden opportunities for him to take advantage of. Trust me that a guy is going to be as forward and aggressive as you want him to be after that initial move is made. However, if he fails to take advantage of these golden opportunities, than my friends you might have a sissy boy on your hands.

This last paragraph is very insightful. Guys have egos (we all have egos) and I can only imagine the fear of rejection they have when they’re approaching a girl they actually like. But, you have to take into consideration, that with all the other bullshit Josh explained guys pull, it’s just as difficult for a girl to determine whether or not the guy is actually being honest in his pursuit and we’re not just getting tricked into bed. All of this is what makes dating and relationships so complicated. So game-like. Such a gamble with your heart.

I do, however, believe that if we all can get past the immature games, mind-tricks and overanalyzing, the potential for men and women to be in a successful relationship is quite possible. In my opinion, men and women are a lot more similar than they seem. I think women tend to fear letting out their bluntness and their opinions on sex for fear that men will categorize them into an unkind box, which has been proven true above.